Bugscope archived session

Transcript

Connected on 2013-05-20 16:30:00 from , California, United States

3:51 pm
Bugscope Teamsample is pumping down
Bugscope Teamalmost there!
3:58 pm
Bugscope Teammaking presets

4:04 pm

4:11 pm

4:17 pm

4:22 pm

Bugscope Teamhi mrs. evans!
Bugscope Teamjust to let you know, there will be no silver fish today (from pill bottle) because it was still alive. sorry

Bugscope Teami just gave you control of the microscopr
Bugscope Teammicroscope*
4:27 pm
Teacherok thanks - hello! is there a way you can let me know how many students sent in an insect for our session today?
Bugscope Teamhang on let me check
Bugscope Team9 students
TeacherHello
Bugscope Teamright now Mrs. Evans has control of the microscope, but if you would like me to give control to someone else let me know
Bugscope Teamhi! welcome to Bugscope!

Bugscope Teami moved us to the rolypoly
Guestme pleas
Bugscope TeamHi Katy- you sent us the silverfish. Unfortunately, it was still alive today, so I stuck it in the freezer for now.
Teacherhi
4:32 pm
Teacherok, NONO is Noah - he can use the controls

Guestoh my goodness i am so sorry i thought it was dead!

Bugscope Teamnot a problem. I thought it was dead as well

Guesti

Guestthis is cool
GuestDid you get my Fire ant?

Guestwhere are the mandibles?
Guestwhat is the area that looks flaky, in the top left?

Bugscope Teamyes I did get a small ant, and it is on here
Bugscope Teamthose are the scales Odessa.
Guesti dont like bugs lol
Bugscope TeamThey aren't from this pillbug, but from some other bug
GuestCool ! ~.~
Bugscope Teamthe area right in the middle is the mouth and its mouthparts
Guestoh wow
Teacher:)

Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamhere is the ant
Teacher:D

Guestwhat is that ????

TeacherIt looks really cool
TeacherBazanikins

Guestthat's so detailed
Bugscope Teamthere is a piece of plant fiber around its compound eye
Guestlook at the eye
Guestwow
GuestDid they get my spider?
Guestdid you get my spider?
Guestdon't they have colored electron microscopes?
Teacher:o

Teacherthis is amazing!

GuestLooks so weird but yet so interesting ... _o_
Teacheryeah
Teacheris this the eye
Teacheris that the eye?

Teacher:)
Guestyes*

Bugscope Teamthe light colored spider is the preset showing its fangs, and the darker spider is the preset showing eyes

TeacherWhat are those things in its eyes?

GuestWow
GuestWow this is cool :D

GuestI sent a cricket
Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamthe cricket is on here as well
Guestdid you get the bee that I sent?
GuestHair on eyes o.O
GuestI didnt know they had hair
TeacherThat looks pretty awesome
4:37 pm
Bugscope TeamI got the bee from you and the ones from Sebastian

Bugscope Teamthis is the darker spider

Bugscope Teaminsects and spiders are very hairy

Teachergreat - lots of hairs
Guestewwww
Bugscope Teamthey are mostly for sense of touch
Guesteww

GuestI sent a red bug

Guestwhat part of the bug is this now?
Guestyou got a bee ? to die ??

Teacheryeah

Bugscope TeamI'm not sure bazanikins. It somehow came up for you
Teacherwhat part is that
Bugscope Teamthis is a simple eye on the spider
Guesti think its the spider eye

Bugscope Teamspiders can have around 6-8 eyes, but all have 8 legs
Guesta cricket :)
Teacher:O cool

Teacherok so now we are on the spider?

Bugscope Teamspiders can't see very well, but they are very good at feeling vibrations with all their hairs

Teachercool!

Teacherkinda looks evil

Teacherright?

Bugscope Teamthis one has 8 eyes
Teacherya i am here
Guestcan we see the spider fangs?
TeacherCool
Bugscope Teami accidentally poked its back. sorry!

Guestspider fangs
TeacherWhats that at the top
GuestI hope that they received my Bee.
Guestthe spider got crunched

Guestahhh :x

TeacherThose sure are scary
TeacherxD
Teacheryes

GuestAwesome~ :3
Guestwow
Guesti sent this one! sooo cool!!
Guestwow

TeacherC:

Guestok
TeacherI sent the ant
Guestdid you get the red bug I sent in?

GuestHello!!

Bugscope Teamstill looks vicious in the microscope

GuestI sent an ant too.
TeacherYes
GuestI sent a fire ant :D

Guesthow?

GuestSo the venom comes from within or just in the fangs ?
Teacherthis is cool
Bugscope Teamhmm. i think I only saw one ant. I hope we didn't lose one
Teacherok
GuestHow?
Guestlook how well i focused it
Bugscope Teamthat looks awesome!
Teacheroh ok
GuestI am in Louisiana right now, and I was able to send a fire ant.
GuestI sent in the spider. this is tim By the way
4:42 pm

Guestok
GuestI don't think they have fire ants in most of california
Teachercan I have control again

Bugscope Teamyou have control mrs. evans
Guestit's not so scary anymore because i remember that it's dead :)
GuestDo pill bugs have any diseases?
Guestthat was my spider!! So Cool!!!!!!
Bugscope Teamants have little combs on their legs to help keep their antennae clean

Bugscope Teamthe combs kind of look like wings
Teacherhere is the bee
GuestI sent a bee too
Bugscope Teamthis is Odessa's bee
GuestWhere is the abdomen?
Guestits prety
Guestoh cool!
TeacherCool!
GuestSo detailed
Guestwhat kind of bee is it
TeacherxD
Guestok
Bugscope Teambees are super hairy. the better to get pollen stuck to it
Guestwoooaaahh :o :D
Guestwhat are the circular lumpy looking parts around the head?
Teacherwow
Bugscope Teamthe antennae are broken off, but everything else on the head looks great
Guestcool
Guestcan you zoom in on the hairy eyea
Teachereyes look cool
Guestno, i mean like on the outside of the picture
Guesteyes
Bugscope Teamthe eyes are on the sides

GuestThe hair carries the pollen?

Bugscope Teamthey have hairs sticking out all over thei eyes as well
Guesthow do they get the pollen off?
Teacherwow
GuestWe should have more live sessions like this. Cool.

TeacherThats so cool :o
Guestcool
Bugscope Teambees are the only insect with forked hairs. Hairs on insects we are supposed to call setae, or seta for singular
Studentso thats hair ?
GuestWhere is the Nose?
Guestwhat kind of bee is it?
Bugscope Teami think they might shake them off when they want to
GuestSo small yet so complex...
GuestWheres the mouth /'
Guest?
Bugscope Teamthey don't have noses.
Guestok
Teacher:o I learned something
TeacherxD
Bugscope TeamThey do breathing through spiracles, which are little holes found throughout their body
Guestme too
TeacherBees don
Guesti didn't know that they don't have a nose! wow!
Teachercan they hear?
TeacherBees don't have noses
Teacherok let's try another image
Guestwhere are the spiracles?
Teacher:P
TeacherOh cool
4:47 pm
Guestooo
Teacherthe wing of a bee

Guestbees are attracted to me flower collored shirts, do they primarly use their eyes to find flowers?
Guestwhat are the spiky things ?
Guestmy*
Bugscope Teamthey don't have ears, but they do some hearing by feeling vibrations for the most part
GuestWhat in the round world is that so supposed to be?
Bugscope Teambees can see ultraviolet
GuestSo there sensors?
Guestwow
Teacherif this is the wing..what are the spikes?
Bugscope Teamthese are hooks they use to hook the fore and hindwings together
TeacherCool!
GuestIt looks like cactus
Teacherwow
Guestawesome :)
Teacherthat's so cool
Bugscope Teambees can't see red
Guestthose are the wings ??
GuestAnd because this is what the Biologists do, everyday!
Guesthow would you test that?
Teacherok ready for another image?
Guestwait , but how does yellow affect them ?
Guestim here
Teacherpotato xD
Bugscope Teamhmm, probably seeing what flowers bees are attracted to
Guestindeed
Guestyea
Guesthi

Teacherhi
Teacherpollen grain on a bees knee
Teacher:o
Guestis that the but
Guestcool
Guestno its the knee
Teacheramal is coming she has problems with her computer
Guestwhere is the knee?
Guest>>>???
Teacherthough
Bugscope Teamthe pollen baskets are located on the bee's knees
Guestwow
Guestewww
GuestIm guessing thats pollen.
Guestthe legs look like they are covered in debris or dust (i know that they probably aren't) but what is that?
Guestwere is the bees butt
GuestI sent the cricket

Guest?
TeacherWhat is that?
Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamthis is the cricket claw
Guestme
TeacherHow do crickets make that sound they make?
GuestDo they have colored electron microscopes?
Guestis that a foot
Guestpraying mantis are cool
TeacherCrickets sting lol?
Bugscope Teammost praying mantis's are too big, but if you get a small or baby one, those look really cool
Bugscope Teamhmm, they don't have stingers. maybe it bit you
TeacherDo crickets sting?
Bugscope Teamyes it's a foot
GuestThats were crickets make the sound?
GuestHow do you tell if the cricket is male or female
Guestmy dog ate a cricket yesterday :/
Guestit looks really creepy
Guesti beleve that the crickets sing by rubbing their wings together
Teacherlol eww
Bugscope Teamlol
GuestThere two toes
GuestHow do crickets make the noises they do?
4:52 pm
Teacheris this the part that makes the sounds?
Bugscope Teami'm not sure how you can tell a cricket's sex
GuestDo crickets use there feets to make noise?
Guestthey make the noise with their claws?
Guestcan you tell the crickets sex ?
GuestI know
Bugscope Teamcrickets make sound by rubbing their wings together
GuestI guess crickets stomp the ground to make that noise, no?
GuestThey rub there feet against there abdomen.
Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamthe claws are used to hold onto things
Teacherno
Guestthe noise .. how do they make it ?

Teachercool
Teacherok true bug head
Guestwow
Teacherby rubbing their wings together?
GuestThey rub there feet against there abdomen.
Teacheri cant see the screen
GuestEpisode Two, attack of the Bugs!
Guestwhat is it
Guestyes. it was fast
TeacherThat looks cool
Guestcan you see any traces of it's last meal on the bugs mouth?
Guestwhat the line thing running down the middle of the head?
Bugscope Teamcrickets rub their wings
Guesttwo antenna looking things on the rear mean its a boy cricket, three mean it is a girl.
Teacher:::o
Guestowe
GuestWhat is going down the middle of it?
GuestThose are the eyes?

Teacheris that the cricket?
GuestIs that the mouth?
Bugscope Teamgrasshoppers can rub their legs on their abdomen
Bugscope Teamto make sound
Guestno its thee true bug head
Bugscope Teamthis is a true bug. they kind of look like beetles
Guestbut what is it
GuestGrasshoppers are an ants worse nightmare other than my foot.

TeacherIt does look like a beetle
Guestlo
Guestl
Guestthey don't have one.
Guesta
Guestb
Guestc
Guestd
Gueste
Guestf
Guesth
Guestdoes it have to turn its head to see or do it's eyes move in their sockets?
Guesti
TeacherDon't spam nono
Guestj
Guestk
Bugscope Teamtrue bugs drink liquids, like bug blood or plant juice
Guestm
Guestn
Guestcan grasshoppers fly?
Bugscope Teamcicadas are a true bug
GuestLong tooth should be its nickname.
Teacher:o
Teacherwhat is the long tube on the true bug called?
Guestgrashoppers can fly
Guesteww
Bugscope Teamyes they can fly
Teachervery interesting!
Guesti live on southern california
Guestwhat is the purpose of hairs on bugs?
Teacherwhaa ??
GuestNasty
Guestwhere does the name true bug come from?
Bugscope Teamlike the butterfly's mouth
GuestWhere is the eye brow?
GuestIf you have ever seen the movie a bugs life then you know grasshoppers fly.
Teacherany more questions on this image?
TeacherIt's funny how the comments jump
Guestdid anybody bring a buterfly
Guestthank you
Teacherlol potato
Guestcan it live without it's feelers?
Bugscope Teamno butterflies today
Guestoooooohhh
Guestis there any characteristics we can look for to recognize how old the specimen is?
Teachermy head hurts :/
Bugscope Teammaybe it can live with antennae, but it really depends
GuestSick
4:57 pm
Bugscope Teamants really depend on their antennae
Teacheris it a girl or a boy ?
Guestcarbon dating!
Teacherhello
Guestnext can we do the ocellus on bee head next?
Guestooonnn
Guesthey waed
Guest:(
Guestnext can we do the ocellus on bee head next?
GuestBoy or girl? the world may never know, you can't exactly look under there skirt you know.
Guestocellus on bee head
Teacheryou never answered my question :/
TeacherWhat is that stuff around the bug>
Teacher?
Bugscope Teami'm not sure if it's boy or girl
Guesteeeeek! spiders?!?
Bugscope Teamsorry

Guestbee compound eye
Teacherhere are the spider eyes
Guestplease

Teacherwhat do true bugs feed on what insects do they drink blood from?

Guestwhy is there so much hair around the eyes?
GuestDo spiders have pupils?
GuestHe looks evil!
Guestdoes it see in color or heat?
Bugscope Teamassassin bugs are a type of true bug that attacks other insects and drinks their blood
TeacherProbably any bug they can find?
Guestdo they only drink blood?
Bugscope Teamspiders don't really see much, but it would be color or whether something is light or dark
Teacherwhy do they have so many eyes?
Bugscope Teamusually daron
GuestSo these bugs feed on other bug and drink their blood?
GuestThey drink any liquid?
GuestSpiders are a bugs version of a vampire.
Bugscope Teamthe different eyes give them different angles to see
GuestDo spiders have pupils?
TeacherHow do thy make their silk?
GuestDo spiders have corna?
Guesti killed 4 spiders today alone :(
Bugscope Teamno they don't have eyes like we do
GuestCan they see color or no?
Bugscope Teamtheir eyes dpm
Guestno cause they cant turn other bugs into spiders
TeacherThat's true
Teacherwhat are those bubbles ??
Teacherlol
Bugscope Teamdon't move and they are attached to a series of nerves
GuestDo spiders act aggresive only when provoked? Or are they just jerks with eight legs and venom...
Teacherbubb;es?
Bugscope Teamnot really sure

GuestNever got an answer.
Teacherok here is the bee head with ocellus
GuestSo hairy
Teacherquestions?
GuestDo they have hair on their eyes?
Bugscope TeamBlack widows are a good example in your area. They are relatively peaceful to humans
Teacher:o its cool
Guestits ugly
Bugscope Teamyes this one does
5:02 pm
GuestWhats the small bump by the eye?
GuestBlack widows are scary
Guestme
Bugscope Teamthe hairs help tell the bee what direction the wind is blowing
Guesti do
GuestGross gross gross
Teacheridk ..
Guestme
Guestcan I
TeacherBlack widows are not as scary as the brown recluse
GuestOk, thats better for an answer, so are spiders always hairy?
TeacherD:
TeacherSebastian would like control of the microscope
Teacherthey ugly though ..
Bugscope Teamthis is one of sebastion's bees

Bugscope Teambrown recluse are similar. they like to stay out of the way of humans
Guestdo they have hairs on their eyes too ?
Teachercan i get a chance to do it to ?
Bugscope Teamyes

Teacheri wonder :/

Teacheryay :)
Guestcan i go

Bugscope Teamthe ocellus here is a simple eye

Teachercool but gross
Guestwhat is that

Bugscope Teamthere are actualy 3 of them, but we can only see one
Guestcan i leav the session
Teacherwoah ..
Teacherwhat is that ?
Bugscope Teamthe ocelli help tell the bee the direction where they are going- like a built in GPS

GuestHairy eyes. How not pretty.
Guesthairs on their eyes? wow
Guestcan i leave
Bugscope Teamthe clump on top of the ocellus is a piece of dirt probably
Guestcan i leave
Teacher:o
Guestcan i leave i need to do some quizes
Guestthat must be irritating
Teachercool lol
GuestWe done? Already, awe man...
Teacherdo bugs blink?
Bugscope Teamthe ocelli allow the insect to be able to sense movements quickly
Guestok bye
Bugscope Teamit's very sensitive to light changes
Teacherhow about another image? do we have time?
GuestAre we free to go?
GuestWhat is that clump on the eye?
Teacherwe are learning a whole lot about bugs and how they are hairy!
Bugscope TeamBugs do not blink.
Bugscope Teamit could be part of a plant or some dirt
Teacher:o
TeacherAnother thing I just learned
Bugscope Teamyes. they don't have sensitive skin like we do. they need hairs, or setae, to help them sense what is going on
Guestcan we see the cricket head?
Bugscope TeamNope.
Bugscope Teamthey do not have eyelids
TeacherCool
Teacherits a piece of dirt or plant
Bugscope Teamno eyelids on insects. they just get dirty. Sometimes they can use their legs to help clean them if it is bothersome
Teacher;)
5:08 pm
Guestthats an eye
Guest?
Bugscope Teamlike when you see a fly land and wipe its legs over its face
Teachertrying to see the cricket head
Teacherdo bugs have eyelashes or eyebrows?

Teacherprobably not
Teacher:\
Bugscope Teamno they don't sammy
Bugscope Teamthe things that look like eyes at the top of the head are actually where the antennae come out of the head
Guestdo they make sounds?
GuestAre those like hands that put food in there mouth?
TeacherOh one quick question about the ant from earlier I forgot to ask
Bugscope Teamthey make lots of sounds
TeacherDo they have teeth
Guestwhere are the eyes then?
Bugscope Teamin the summer cicadas are super loud
GuestSo structured

Bugscope Teamthey don't have teeth so much
TeacherDo ants have teeth?
Teacher:P
GuestWhat happens when an ant loses an antenna?

Teacheri was going to ask that lol
GuestWhat do crickets feed on ?
Teacheroh ok
GuestBye and thank you
GuestWhere is the mouth?
Bugscope Teamyou can probably consider their mandibles as their teeth
Teachervery informative!
Guestcan you see what it last ate?
GuestWhat do they feed on?
TeacherOkay
Teacher:D
Bugscope Teamhere you see the cricket mouth parts
GuestWhat happens when an ant uses an antenna, do they become disoriented?
Guestloses*
Guestbut what do they feed on
Bugscope Teamneelix, this microscope is able to go to around 200,000x and see things as small as 2 nanometer, or a billionth of a meter
Bugscope Teaman ant's mouth is going to look very similar, save for some parts that are reduced/exaggerated
GuestMy Bearded Dragon loves to eat these
Bugscope Teamants use their antennae to recognize a bunch of things
TeacherOh okay
Teacherthats cool
GuestWhat if they lose one?
GuestDo they become disoriented?
Guestwhat happens if the antenne hits something or breaks?
Guestwhat do they feed on
TeacherDo bugs starve without their antlers?
Bugscope Teamif they lose one antennae, they might be ok.
Bugscope Teamthey use them to recognise nest mates (their sisters), trails that other ants left behind to food source, and enemies
5:13 pm
Bugscope Teamif they lose both, they will probably get very disoriented and die
Teacheroh ok
Guestwhat do they feed on though
Bugscope Teami don't know if they get disoriented
Bugscope Teamthe ant antennae probably don't break as easily when they are alive. Joe probably knows better than me on that
Teachercan we see ant head again
Bugscope Teambut i'm guessing you might be referring to when you draw a circle or whatever on a paper with bic pens
Bugscope Teammrs. evans you have control. sorry
Bugscope Teamand termites and some ants kind of go and follow the trail of the pen?
Bugscope Teammost ants you see are females

Bugscope Teamin that case, they are actually responding to something in the ink, that is similar to their own trail pheromones
Bugscope Teammales have wings
TeacherAll of the males work underground right?
Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamtheir various parts are pretty sturdy
TeacherWow
Guest?
Teacheroh - we should try to do that
TeacherMales have wings
Teacherso I'm guessing that one is a female
Guestit it true that crickets eat spiders
GuestI was just wondering, if they use their antennas for like knowing where to go, if they lose one won't it throw off their sense of direction, kind of if you go blind, you lose the depth and are more likely to run into things.
Bugscope Teamthere are chances of breaking in fights etc, but you'd have to try hard to damage it
Bugscope Teamvery likely Daron!
Teacherno wings = female
Guestgo blind in one eye*
Bugscope Teamcrickets are omnivores
Bugscope Teami guess they can eat spiders
Bugscope Teamspiders eat crickets
Guestlose* I keep saying use intead of lose*
Bugscope Teamusually that is the way the food chain works
TeacherSome spiders can eat birds
TeacherI think
Bugscope Teammy bet is it's the other way around, but when there are enough crickets around, and they are hungry, it might happen
Teacherthis is the ant
GuestWhat?
TeacherI don't want to encounter those ones xD
Bugscope Teamyup
GuestThat is a huge spider
Bugscope Teamme neither
Bugscope Teamspiders do occasionally eat birds and small mammals
Teacherthis is an ant
Bugscope Teamyea it is
GuestThe legs is cool
TeacherAnts usually eat decomposed animals right
Bugscope Teamthere are spiders that can eat bats
Guesti seen a spider kill a human in a sec
Bugscope Teamthe sharper things that you see pointing down are their mandibles that i mentioned earlier
Teacheroohh cool
Bugscope Teamyou can kind of make out the palps that cate talked about as well
Bugscope Teamants eat a variety of things
5:18 pm
Teacherthis was a very cool session! thank you so much! does anyone have anymore questions or requests to seee any other images?
Bugscope TeamMany of them are probably vegetarians
Bugscope Teamspiders can overwhelm most anything if they wanted. A lot of insects will have special defenses just for ants
Teacher:o
Bugscope Teamfocusing on fungus, seeds, etc...
GuestThanks. This was very cool!
TeacherYeah it was!
Bugscope Teama lot of them are also predatory, attacking and eating other insects, arthropods
Guesthow do ant communicate to eachother to get their points across?
Bugscope Teamchemical signals
GuestWith pheromones I think
Bugscope Teamants also farm aphids and other homopterans
GuestSo leafcutters are the first farmers?
GuestProfessors. Do you make good money studying bugs?
Bugscope Teamand feed on their "poop"
Bugscope Teamants have a special place on their abdomen that they can move to make sound, like a grasshopper. But we can't hear it
Bugscope Teamat least some ants have this
Bugscope Teamthe "poop" being a drop of honey dew, full of sugary goodness
Bugscope Teamyum
Guestwow thats so interesting thank you!
Teacher:o cool!
Guestthis is just getting gross
Teacherlol
Guestlol
Bugscope Teamaphids are true bugs as well
TeacherThanks for showing this to us!
GuestThank you.
TeacherThank you!
Bugscope Teamthey eat plant juice
GuestThank you, You are the best!
Guestthank you again for your time and wonderful program! :)
GuestThank you!!!!
GuestI do this for free too
Guestthankyou this was interesting
GuestThis was fun. Thank you
TeacherThanks!
Bugscope Teamthank you for sharing your california insects with us today
Bugscope Teamthanks!
Bugscope Teambye!
Teacherbye :D
Bugscope Teamall your chat and images from today can be found on your member page
TeacherThanks,p!
GuestAdios!
TeacherThank you guys!!! We really appreciate this time!
Guestbye!
Bugscope Teamhttps://bugscope.beckman.illinois.edu/members/2013-034
Teacherbye :-)
Bugscope Teammight be fun for you to look at the images and chat later. Glad you liked it. Bye
Teacherdo bugs sleep?
Bugscope Teamthis is the inside of the microscope and where your insects are
5:23 pm
Bugscope Teamno, not like we do
Teacherreally??
Bugscope Teamthey have a period of rest, kind of like fish
Teacheroh...
Teacherthat link is not opening up for me
Bugscope Teamhttp://bugscope.beckman.illinois.edu/members/2013-034 might work better
Bugscope Teambasically the same without the s in http
Teacheroh, thanks!
Teachergot it!
Bugscope Teamare there any other questions?
TeacherI guess we are all done! Thanks again!
Bugscope Teamthanks again!

Name	CALPAC
Web site	http://www.calpacschools.org/
Location
Community	Suburban
Type	Public

Subjects	Science 8, Biology, Physics
Grades	8th Grade, 9th Grade, 10th Grade, 11th Grade, 12th Grade
Students	160

Title	BUGS and Body Structure
Description	We are in the process of studying body systems. By May we move into trophic levels and food systems. I am an online teacher who meets with my student every Monday at 2:30pm online in my Elluminate Blackboard classroom. I would like to have students utilize this program to better understand how living organisms fit into food webs and how their structure determines their function.

CALPAC
Session 2013-034

Application

School

Class

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Miscellaneous

Transcript

Connected on 2013-05-20 16:30:00 from , California, United States

CALPACSession 2013-034

Application

School

Class

Project

Miscellaneous

Transcript

Connected on 2013-05-20 16:30:00 from , California, United States

CALPAC
Session 2013-034